Answers about Gary Bartz

Gary Bartz

Devin Leonard, a writer for Waxpoetic Magazine, asked be a bunch of questions about my brief but significant tenure in Gary Bartz' band. Leonard said he would edit this, so I'm using the unedited answers as my latest blog.....

I remember very vividly my first exposure to Gary Bartz. It was not on a recording, it was live at the Closet, a great jazz club in Baltimore. It closed pretty soon after I went there. This was 1987, my first year as a trumpet student at Peabody Conservatory. The band was Gary's Baltimore band: Bob Butta on piano, Geoff Harper on bass, and Steve Williams on drums. My friend Alex Norris went to sit in on trumpet. I remember that the way they were playing was the closest that I had ever been to seeing something like the John Coltrane Quartet. Bartz was really stretching out. He would take not one but 2 solos on every song:one at the beginning and one at the end. I was really amazed.

Gary was always playing in the area in those days. He was playing at the New Haven Lounge, or at Twins or The One Step Down in Washington D.C. And I used to go all the time, because I really loved listening to his pianist, Bob Butta. And so this is how I learned how to play with Bartz; by essentially copying everything Butta was doing.

"Tale As Old As Time..."

So I guess there was a gig that Bartz was going to do at Twins Lounge in the early 90's, and Butta couldn't make it or he couldn't make one night, or something. And the bass player on the gig, called me to sub on piano. I knew all the songs that Gary called. And I pretty much played like Butta, so I think he was impressed by that. I remember also that Bartz never actually called tunes, he just started playing, and either you knew the tune, or didn't. There were two tunes that he "called" which were real "think on my feet" moments; he started playing the theme song from the movie " Beauty And The Beast." I had seen the movie, so I kind of faked it. I think that impressed Bartz. I think he liked the fact that I would try my best to follow him, no matter where he went musically or harmonically. Also, I remember he started playing "Witchcraft", which I didn't really know, but Bartz played the changes on the saxophone so well that I just listened hard and figured it out. That was a real lesson.


And then in 1995, Bartz called me to join his band. He wanted to do another recording for Atlantic Jazz, which he was signed to at the time. And he was doing a gig at Sweet Basil's in New York. I think I had just moved to New York around this time, so this was a really big deal for me. The band featured James King on bass and Greg Bandy on drums. There was one gig around that time, back in D.C. at the One Step Down, where we had Idris Muhammed on drums. That was the gig where McCoy Tyner showed up! I was terrified!

I will say that it always felt easy to play with Bartz. I felt like we had a connection. I would play strong behind him. Sometimes I felt like maybe I was overplaying. But I happened to ask Gary about who he liked on piano. He said he liked Benny Green a lot because "he really lays it down." I tried to do the same from then on.


Bartz has a lot of energy when he plays. He's like the Coltrane of the alto, maybe one of the first people to really do that on the alto. He might be one of the few people that really knows how to take a long solo which has a payoff; he knows how to pace and develop, and build to a real climax. A lot of people play long solos, but Bartz' solos really go somewhere.


Believe it or not, when I played in Bartz' band, he never said much in terms of musical direction. Which I think he learned from Miles Davis. Most of the people I've played with who went through the Miles Davis School don't really say a whole lot. They let the music happen on it's own. But I did absorb a lot just from listening to Bartz play all the time.


Bartz taught me about consistency: He always sounded good, no matter what was going on. He also taught me about taste. He would somehow make things that might be corny in the hands of others and make it really great. He has a sense of that. I remember Bartz would quote really strange tunes, or maybe even corny tunes, but it would always sound tasteful.


Bartz also had a good perspective on the business. Especially after Atlantic Jazz dropped him. He was and is very adamant about owning your own music. That's why his label is called OYO-Own Your Own!


Bartz is kind of an amateur stand up comedian. So he told a lot of jokes and funny stories. He really liked to joke around. He has the delivery of a Richard Pryor. He also told jokes on the bandstand as well. But he can also be very serious. Bartz is very politically aware. Many of his classic albums, especially NTU Troop stuff is very political. Bartz has a lot of social consciousness.

   
Bartz was oftentimes candid about his drug use. He was "strung out" for many decades. But he is very healthy now. He was a very strict vegetarian for a while, I don't know if he still is.
       

He had a lot of stories about playing with Miles, with Blakey, with Lee Morgan. It's really a blessing to get to play with older musicians because they put things in perspective. As a young musician, you might say, " Wow, this tune is really awesome, this tune that I'm just learning today." Somebody like Bartz can say, "Yeah I remember when I heard Trane play it in the 60's", you know, things like that.
I worked with Gary for only a few years, from sometime in 1994 to 1996. I did a few things on and off after that, but I really miss playing with him. It was one my first apprenticeships and I am forever grateful for the opportunity.

Trial By Fire: Episode One

Roy Haynes: where does he get his energy?

"Pressure creates diamonds", said somebody wise. In other words, a little kick in the ass can help you get to the next level. There's many ways to describe the struggle, the hard work, the day to day , year by year effort it takes to achieve something. Some people are innately driven; others need guidance. And talent is not enough; in fact, talent can be one's worst enemy. I always tell my students that I'm not talented at all, that all that I have achieved came through years of sacrifice and hard work. And the struggle might not end when you think it's supposed to. This is actually a good thing; so many in our society spend their golden years by the pool, driving around in their golf carts, and catching the Early Bird Special at 4 pm. There's nothing wrong with that, but wouldn't you want to spend those golden years creatively? Look at Roy Haynes; he should have by all rights retired years ago, yet he plays the drums with more vim and vigor than my 20 year old students! I saw Hank Jones before he passed away, and he seemed like he was still trying to improve! Isn't that beautiful?

Geoffrey Keezer: hearing him really got me to practice

The toughest thing you can do is look at yourself critically. However, this is essential for development as a musician, as well as a human being. And to take criticism in whatever form, even if it's dead-on- the-mark, exactly what you need to hear, is also tough. Believe me, I am extremely sensitive to criticism. But when I think back on my early experiences, I can honestly say that the figurative musical "beatings" I took stay with me to this day. They made me stronger. And this sort of "beating" might take the form of just hearing somebody better than yourself.(I've spoken about seeing Geoffrey Keezer at Bradley's in the 90's; hearing him play piano with his incredible virtuosity one time keep me practicing 4 to 8 hours a day for 3 years.)

But some "whuppings" can be somewhat humiliating at first. Especially if they are on a stage and all eyes are on you, and not for the best reasons.

The great Ernestine Anderson

When I was a resident of Washington D.C., in the early 90's, I was called last minute to sub at Blues Alley with singer Ernestine Anderson. (The original pianist, who will remain nameless, didn't show up to sound check, so I was called) If you don't know Ernestine Anderson, she's a legend; many have compared her to Ella Fitzgerald and Sarah Vaughn, but I think she's actually more bluesy. She's 82, so when I worked with her, she was in her early 60's. She's been recording since the 1950's. I've listened to her older stuff and newer stuff, and I actually think that she has gotten better with age. (She made headlines recently because she had problems with the mortgage on her house in Seattle; apparently, Quincy Jones and others helped her save her home.)

Keter Betts

So I drove down to Blues Alley with my tuxedo, to begin a three night stint with Ernestine Anderson. In the rhythm section was the late great Keter Betts on bass and Harold Mann on drums. So most of the group is in their 60's, except for me in my 20's. Clearly, I was a novice compared to everyone else on the stage. I wasn't afraid, but I was a little self conscious being the youngest musician by four decades. Usually, with a singer backed by a piano trio, the pianist plays the Musical Director role, just out of practicality(everyone can see the pianist, the pianist can play intros, etc...). So here I was, an embryo compared to Betts, Mann, and Anderson, trying to basically lead the ensemble. And did I mention that the charts were chicken scratch? I couldn't really read the charts, but I did my best trying to figure out what to play.

The first two night went OK. I was amazed at Anderson's energy, especially for a 60 plus year old; I remember being exhausted by the end of the first set, and it seemed like every successive song gave Anderson more and more stamina. Anderson had a lot of confidence and flair as a performer; at a certain point in the night she would say "This is the part of the show where I take my shoes off!" And the energy would go even higher.

Keter Betts tried to help me; he had played with most of the great vocalists in jazz history. "Now George, don't be playing all that Chick Corea stuff," he advised. "You get in there and play some nice block chords, and comp, and lay in the pocket." I listened and took note. Honestly, I probably wasn't the ideal pianist for the gig.(Maybe I was only pianist they could find that wasn't working that weekend!) But I was enjoying the gig, despite the pressure, and was really impressed with Anderson. Every night, the club was packed, both sets.

The third night, I'll never forget, because I suppose that after three nights of playing a gig, and if everything is going smoothly, then you might start to get a little cocky. You might get a little complacent. I'm never one to get too complacent, but I'm just trying to find the reasons for what happened during the first set of the third night.

We were playing a standard, kind of a medium tempo swing, and it was fine. It's typical, especially with singers, to play a turnaround at the end of a song, as a kind of extension, or even a coda. It can vary in length; sometimes, it can be merely a few bars, other times it can be quite protracted. There are different types of turnarounds, if you know jazz theory. Some are, for example, in the key of C:

Dm7    G7        Em7       A7      Dm7    G7        Em7       A7 

or it might be


Em7  A7        Dm7   G7     Em7  A7        Dm7   G7

It really depend on the song, or what the bass player is playing, etc. So many of the tunes we had played had used a turnaround at the end, with a typical ending, usually directed by yours truly. However, this one particular song, it seemed as though the turnaround I was playing was not what Miss Anderson was wanting to hear. So she would sing, and then listen, and then sing, and then turn to me and say:
"Turnaround!"

And I looked back as if to say,"Miss Anderson, I am playing a turnaround!"

And then she would say it again:

"Turnaround!"

And I looked back again as if to say, "Miss Anderson, this is a turnaround!"

And at a certain point, I panicked. And something in my inner instinct said "Abort! Abort!" And I started to play a very clear, stock ending, figuring that if we wrap it up, then this awkward feeling, of not knowing what's wrong with the turnaround, will surely end, and we can move on to another song.

But it was not to be. Miss Anderson started screaming as loud as she could on the mike: "NO! NO! NO! I'M NOT FINISHED! I"M NOT FINISHED THE SONG!"

Meanwhile, my forced "ending" had actually been picked up by Betts and Mann, but slightly delayed, so that as Anderson was screaming, the rhythm section was still ending the song. That made it look and sound even worse. Meanwhile, I had already gone back to playing a turnaround, which I still was not sure if it was the right turnaround. Clearly, my confidence was eroding by the second....

And then of course, the audience was laughing hysterically, possibly thinking that it was part of the show, or maybe just enjoying the "beating" that I was taking, being the baby on the stage. I felt hot; my tuxedo closed in on me, and very swiftly became a sauna suit.

"NO! YOU DO NOT FINISH THE SONG BEFORE I'M FINISHED WHAT I GOT TO SAY!" declared Miss Anderson. As I pounded away my version of the turnaround, I looked up sheepishly as if to say, "Yes, Miss Anderson, I will play the turnaround until you give me a clear signal, and only then will I attempt to bring this song to a smooth landing..." 

I was of course, very embarrassed. However, I look back on that and realize that that one incident, among other incidents, really made me a better musician. I went on to play with many great vocalists, including Cassandra Wilson, Vanessa Rubin, Janis Seigel, Shelia Jordan, Richard Bona, and many others. I think that trial by fire really showed me how focused a pianist has to be when working with singers. You have to develop a symbiosis, a telepathy, a way of communicating through the music and through unspoken cues. It was definitely uncomfortable at the time, but I have a lot of gratitude about the incident. It made me stronger in terms of "rolling with the punches".

And that's why I tell my students to look for situations outside of their comfort zone; if you just lift the same weights week after week, you'll never get stronger. Hence, don't be afraid to try things that you aren't a master of yet, and don't be afraid to fall on your ass. As long as you get back up, you will grow.

Kenny Barron Revisited

Since last year, I've been writing articles for Keyboard Magazine. Jon Regen, who is a great pianist and also a great singer-songwriter, works for Keyboard Magazine as an editor; he approached me about writing for a segment called, "5 Ways To Play Like...."- insert name of artist. I've written articles in this fashion on  Herbie Hancock, Horace Silver, Kenny Kirkland, McCoy Tyner, and a recent one on Chick Corea. Regen asked me early in July to write another one. He gave me two choices: Kenny Barron or Brad Mehldau. I decided on Barron pretty quickly. I felt that Barron is someone that doesn't get mentioned as much as Mehldau, yet should be more known, especially to the younger crop of pianists. I also wanted to revisit his music myself, having realized that I hadn't sat down and listened to a Kenny Barron recording in quite some time.

It was tough getting the assignment in by the deadline: two weeks prior, I was up to my eyes in preparing music for some New York sideman gigs. And then the week before the deadline, I had to fly to Portland, Oregon with my wife to look for an apartment. But I managed to steal some time, and on the flight home from Portland, I pieced it together. I was really pleased to sort of re-discover Kenny Barron's piano playing; I hadn't listened to some of these recordings in years, and I also listened to some new(new for me) albums as well.

One of the albums I hadn't listened to in a long time is "Quickstep", which came out in the early 90's
on the Germany based Enja label. The album features a quintet of Barron on piano, John Stubblefield on tenor, Eddie Henderson on trumpet, David Williams on bass, and Victor Lewis on drums. This is a real "New York" kind of group, a band you might hear at the now defunct Sweet Basil's. It's a very mature set of performances in that Barron is the leader, but he makes no attempts to outshine anyone; he's a team player to the end, comping steadily and taking great solos in turn. I'm pretty sure that this was recorded at Rudy Van Gelder's famous studio. The piano has that magical sparkle in the mix that I hear from Rudy Van Gelder recordings(the more recent ones. The classic ones sparkle in a different way....).

Another CD I had not listened to in a long time is called "What If?", also on the Enja label, from 1986. This CD features Wallace Roney on trumpet, the late great John Stubblefield on Tenor saxophone, Cecil McBee on bass, and Victor Lewis on drums. I especially like the title track, which has a Monkish tinge to it, but a bit more on the modern side. "Phantoms", a mysterious melody and spacey bossa, and "Voyage", a medium up tempo swinger, are practically jazz standards. Wallace Roney adds a very progressive element to the recording, not to imply that anyone else on the record is playing anything stale; Barron plays some very surprising, inventive lines.

"Scratch", which I think I used to have on vinyl, is a very interesting album, also on the Enja label. on bass is Dave Holland, on drums is the Swiss-born Daniel Humair, considered one of the greats on the European jazz scene. This is probably the most surprising of the three Enja CDs. I think this would be a tough call in a blindfold test, if you didn't know the album already. Barron is on the edge, with compositions and improvisation. Humair and Holland have a great hook up, and are supportive yet encouraging of experimentation. There is a nice mix of moods, from the aggressive " The Third Eye", to the bebop jaunt of "And Then Again", to the mellow, thoughtful ballad of "Song for Abdullah", which is a solo piano interlude. Some of the chords in "Song For Abdullah" are slash chords(meaning a chord in right hand and a bass note in the left hand that might give the right hand triad a completely different sound), although in reality they are first inversion triads. The A sections are roughly Db/F,   Db/Gb,  Eb/G, Gb/Ab, A07, Bb-7, Ebsus7, Eb7#11, Gb/Ab. It almost has a gospel/pop feel to it. And Barron's sound is impeccable. This was recorded at Systems Two in Brooklyn, which also has a distinctive piano sound. The piano is out in the middle of the room, giving it a more wide open sound, whereas (at least when I recorded at Rudy Van Gelder's)the piano is in a booth, which gives it a closer, punchier sound than the Systems Two piano.

You can download all of these on Itunes. There were two other CDs I downloaded which I would like to investigate further: "Live At Bradley's" and "Canata Brasil". "Live At Bradley's" is reminiscent of the first time I heard Kenny Barron live at this also now defunct legendary New York jazz club. The gigs at Bradley's tended to be very informal, more like jam sessions than presentations of original music and tight bands. Barron blazes elegantly on "Solar", his lines are impeccable and he has endless ideas. I like that he choose the great James Williams tune "Alter Ego", which is practically a standard. The great Ray Drummond is on bass and the great Ben Riley is on drums; this is actually the group I heard in the early 90's. The band sounds as fresh now as it did then.

"Canta Brasil" is a great collaboration between Barron and Trio Da Paz, the great Brazilian jazz group, consisting of Romero Lubambo on guitar, Nilson Matta on bass, and Duduka da Fonseca on drums. (Isn't that something? The drummer's NAME sound like a samba rhythm. Say it over and over and people in the room will start dancing, watch.....Duduka da Fonseca, Duduka da Fonseca, Duduka da Fonseca.....). Barron blends right in with the Samba and bossa nova rhythms, and yet maintains his jazz identity. Anne Drummond adds a nice flavor with some flute. Although I would say overall, the production of this recording is more commercial than the CDs I previously mentioned; however, Barron does not hold back on his solos; rather, he  is extremely inventive within the framework. It's very pleasant listening and a nice change of pace after hearing Barron with very jazzy rhythm sections.

If you read Keyboard magazine, keep an eye out for the article on "5 Ways To Play Like Kenny Barron." After listening to so much of him, I wish I could play like him! And I should mention that I was a colleague of Barron's when I taught at Juilliard a few years ago. Barron is super nice, and super humble; I remember that he presented one of his students to the jury panel like so:" Yeah, this kid already has more chops than I do..." If you are already a Kenny Barron fan, then kudos. If not, don't sleep on him! Kenny Barron is one of the jazz piano players that we can look to for inspiration. He paid a lot of dues as a sideman, and is continuing to grow as a bandleader and composer.

Jazz Pianists of Baltimore, Maryland, Part 1

Every jazz musician has their influences. Many musicians talk fondly of their favorite recorded music. However, if you go back to earlier generations, you find that musicians talk more about the players that they heard live and the players that they knew, or even studied with. Jazz started as more of a folk tradition, with information being handed down to the next generation, and each generation adding to the tradition. I believe that has changed somewhat, due to the lack of local venues, and our increasingly isolated society. After all, it is a great thing to take from recorded music; it's actually essential. But what about hearing people live? Don't you think music has more of an impact when you can actually see the musicians and feel the vibrations?

Gary Bartz

I feel lucky that I was in Baltimore when there were still a lot of gigs going on, although many of the
piano gigs were in hotels or restaurants. I missed the era of The Closet, a great jazz club that closed not long after I arrived at Peabody Conservatory (I did see one performance of Gary Bartz and his quartet before they went out of business, but the Closet used to be the spot where New York musicians would come down and play with the top local rhythm sections). But I did spend a lot of time at the New Haven Lounge, which had New York players and top local players every weekend. I also used to go to the One Step Down and Blues Alley and Twins in Washington D.C., which had even more name acts. Baltimore and Washington D.C. are so close that, at least in the 90's, it was considered the same "market" and musicians would frequently drive back and forth between both cities.

Tim Murphy

One of the pianists who was a huge influence on me was Tim Murphy. I first heard Murphy at the Hyatt Regency in downtown Baltimore in 1987. My friend and fellow Peabody classmate, trumpeter Alex Norris, took me down there to hear the house trio, which featured vocalist Shelia Ford, pianist Armen Boyajin, bassist Larry Kinling, and drummer Jim Hannah. But Boyajin was not playing piano this time, he was playing violin, and Tim Murphy was playing piano. I remember hearing Murphy play some harmonies that sounded like Hindemith on absinthe! And I wasn't yet serious about the piano as my main instrument, but the more I listened to Murphy that night, the more I had the inclination that "I want to do what HE is doing...."

It turned out that Tim Murphy is actually very studied in the jazz tradition: he can show you two

Messian

handed Oscar Peterson blues licks for days, and he's transcribed a lot of Herbie Hancock and McCoy Tyner. But he also happens to be a virtuoso classical organist, and he has performed many works for pipe organ by Oliver Messian. Messian had his own system of harmony based on "modes of limited transposition", which includes what you might know as the diminished scale. Murphy urged me to look at Messian's book entitled The Technique Of My Musical Language, which I did, although it was kind of advanced for me at the time, in retrospect.

Murphy and I ended up playing together in the Baltimore-based Latin Jazz band called Rumba Club; I was playing timbales in the band, if you can believe that! But I used that vantage point to check out what Murphy was playing, and any time he played a chord I wanted to steal, I would yell from the timbales, "What was that chord?" and Murphy would shout back,"I'll tell you later!" And eventually, Murphy couldn't make a lot of the Rumba Club gigs, so I ended up subbing for him, and trying to basically sound exactly like him, which of course I couldn't.

You might know Murphy's playing if you are a Gary Thomas fan; Murphy is on many of Thomas' recordings, including Code Violations, By Any Means Neccessary, 'Til We Have Faces, Exile's Gate, and The Kold Kage. Unfortunately, Murphy has not to my knowledge recorded as a leader, and at this writing he is still in Maryland,  teaching in the Peabody Jazz Program and also at Towson University. I think Murphy is one of the most unique players that remains in obscurity. Murphy never had the desire to move to New York and join the Jazz Rat Race, which is unfortunate, because I think he is deserving of wider recognition.

Bob Butta

Another big influence on my decision to switch to jazz piano is another Baltimore native named Bob Butta. The only time I ever went to The Closet, Butta was in the rhythm section backing Gary Bartz (with Geoff Harper on bass and Steve Williams on drums). I remember thinking at the time that that was first time I ever heard a band that sounded close to what the John Coltrane Quartet must have sounded like live; they played with so much intensity, and they really stretched out. Butta is a forceful accompanist, channeling the likes of Wynton Kelly, McCoy Tyner, and Horace Silver all at once. And Butta has the "right hand of doom"; he took the Tyner pentatonic idea and put his own stamp on it.

I probably saw Butta play more than anybody in Baltimore. I followed Butta around so much that he
started joking that "Yeah, he's my son!" I tried to absorb his techniques. Butta really knows the history; in his playing you'll hear Red Garland, Bill Evans, Cedar Walton, and Theolonious Monk. Butta is a real " jazz pianist's jazz pianist". It's unfortunate that he, like Murphy, never moved to New York. Although, there is a legendary story about Butta being in New York at the Star Cafe jam session in the 80's and while he was playing, bassist Lonnie Plaxico ran in and said in Butta's ear, "Art Blakey needs a piano player, we are driving to Canada tonight!" And Butta replied, "Can I finish playing this tune first?" And then when the tune was over, Plaxico was gone, and Blakey had driven off. (At least that's how I recall Butta telling me the story, I would accept some corroboration....")



For more on Tim Murphy, click here. For more on Bob Butta, click here.

The Ralph Peterson Interview

Ralph Peterson

I was recently in Athens, as part of my tour with Jack DeJohnette. Shortly after arriving, I'm sitting in my hotel room, and I get an unexpected call. "Colligan!"
"Uh...yes?"
And then I hear one of my obscure compositions, "Reaction", being sung by a gravelly yet pitch perfect voice. It could only be one person….
"Ralph? What are you doing here?"

Ralph Peterson is one of the greatest jazz drummers there is, period. Originally from Pleasantville, New Jersey, and also originally a trumpeter (I can relate to that…), Peterson rose to prominence as one of the great young drummers with a band called Out Of The Blue, more commonly known as OTB. (Indeed, I had a record, actually a cassette, of OTB called "Live At Mt. Fuji" that I listened to constantly in the early 90's.) Peterson also played as the second drummer with Art Blakey and The Jazz Messengers (that's a pretty high honor).

He has played with most of the greats in jazz, and has a long discography as a leader. Some of his Blue Note recordings were favorites of mine, albums like "Triangular", "Volition", and especially "Art", a tribute to Blakey. (Unfortunately, these are hard to find, since Blue Note destroyed a lot of their catalogue, for some reason. This was before Itunes….) Peterson recently started his own label, which is called Onyx Music; the first release is called "Outer Reaches" and features a fabulous organ quartet called the Unity Project ( I heard them last summer at the Iridium and was blown away. Organist Pat Bianchi was serious!)

 

I was personally fortunate that Peterson played on two of my CDs as a leader; "Activism"(Steeplechase) and "Ultimatum" (Criss Cross), respectively. He also performed in a series of quartet concerts featuring a suite I composed entitled Post 9-11, which was funded by Chamber Music America and the now defunct Arts International. There is a recording, but for now, it remains unreleased. 


What I love about Peterson's playing is what I would call passionate precision: the swing and energy is like a hurricane, but the time is consistent and grounded, and the form of the tune is always being addressed. Peterson has huge ears and is a quick study in terms of learning new compositions. He's also still pretty killing on the trumpet, and not a bad pianist and bassist. Furthermore, Peterson's passion for the music has translated into becoming a renowned teacher. He's been full time at Berklee for the better part of a decade. 

Peterson was in Athens performing with some Greek musicians. I told him I wanted to get an interview and we agreed to meet the next morning out by the pool. As expected, he was candid and articulate.

GC: What do you think is the state of the jazz music business these days?

RP: The nature of the business is exploitative.  So, once you’ve realized that, as an artist, you fall out of favor with those who have the power. The "chosen ones" are just getting younger and younger now to where all the guy has to do is get into college and he’s trying to get calls for gigs. I think that the cats who are now teaching in the colleges should be the development network. It should be, for example, that I could call Mulgrew Miller and say, “Ok, Who is the killing piano player out here? ” Or I’d call you and ask “Who is the killing piano player I should know about? ” And then, musicians can determine who is the next great player. Unfortunately, now it’s competitions and record labels that are determining who is the next great player.

Sometimes it’s not even the professors. It’s the administrators and the trustees and the Board of Directors deciding to put the weight and full force of support at a program behind a particular individual. You dig what I’m saying? When on the other hand, there are young students who are trying to go through the process and come out credentialed as well as experienced; like pianist Victor Gould...Yeah, Victor Gould is a cat that you should hear.  He would leave you feeling encouraged about the future of your instrument...

And all of this is coming from me, a guy who was thought of as un-credentialed and unexperienced when I first hit the scene. Okay, so it ironic that I’m even saying it.
           

Michael Carvin

Back in ’85 and ’86 when OTB happened, they were saying the same shit about me.  But I finished school.  Under the loving threat of physical violence from my teacher, Michael Carvin, saying to me, “You can quit school and go to New York…. but don’t let me see you in the streets” …..(laughing)

GC: Let's go back a little.  Talk a little bit about Alan Dawson and the Rudiment Ritual.  Why you think it's important?

RP: There are a group of fantastic drummers at Berklee who studied with Alan.  Alan and Joe Hunt started the program (When I had my back surgery, Joe Hunt subbed for me- I was out on medical leave ). Alan’s body of work is a teacher’s would speak for itself in his students, right?  So, I was always talking about my philosophy regarding any kind of musical information: take what you need and leave the rest. And don’t buy in lock – stock- and- barrel to any philosophy that is not based in your own experience.  Because then you are not living your life.  You are living somebody else’s. And so, to the extent that the program is now moving back towards a complete embracing – of every idea that Alan had, every idea that Alan has is not going to work for everybody, and what Alan taught , he lived, and he might have taught it differently to Kenwood Dennard, and then differently to Terri Lynne Carrington, and that might have been different from the way he taught John Ramsay. Because Alan is making you do three rudiments at a time, and you don’t get anymore rudiments until you come back for the next lesson.  Maybe it's because he doesn’t think you can handle any more information than that. Maybe another student who has either a better work ethic... or ability to absorb information at a greater rate….they might get more. You can give information many different ways. But I‘m personally not going to hold somebody back based on a pre-described formula.

 I have looked at the ritual and found a way to develop it, using the principles of three-part writing, to do the exercises using parallel, contrary, and oblique motion. You apply those rules to your hands and the Rudiment Ritual and you come up with some very interesting things around the instrument. But I refuse to teach any drummer the motions on the ritual until they have memorized the exercise in their body. Because I don’t want him read it while he’s trying to expand it.  So if you teach that way, it’s kind of like peeling an onion in reverse.  You stuff a layer and then you make sure that, that layer is internalized and then, once you are sure that layer of information is internalized; you put the next expansion on top of it.  Like in the Navy Seals….talking about the next evolution. When you go to a Navy Seal’s training, they talk about how it ratchets up in intensity. Each ratchet is called an evolution.

Alan Dawson

That’s my approach, and I think the power and greatness of the Berklee Program is the fact that these are maybe 37 great drummers there all with different approaches to teach you.

GC:  Well,  the way you play, the way Terri Lynne plays, the way Kenwood Dennard plays, these are all completely different.

RP: Completely different. And Neil Smith as well. But each has its own value. There are times  at Berklee when Neil will come over and just bring his student and sit in the room , while I’m working with my student. And vice-versa. Although truthfully, there are some union restrictions at Berklee with so-called "team teaching" …but informally, this is collaborative education. Where the individual components, when combined in the right way, offer a better education experience for the students than sitting in the room with me by myself.       

GC: Is there a lot more to playing jazz drums, than just playing the instrument?

RP: Well,  yeah, and that’s been the niche I've  kind of carved out for myself at Berklee.  When I got there and I realized that, even the best drummers there, the ones that were playing with Gary Burton didn’t know how many bars are in the “A” Section of  Benny Golson's"Stablemates".

GC: "Stablemates" can be revealing for a drummer….

RP: You know what I’m saying! Oh! Didn’t know the tune at all! It became the "AHA!" moment when I realized why I was there.... that this is what I have to contribute.  This is why I’ve kept playing trumpet – even when I was studying drums. This is why I survived Ted Dunbar's class, as opposed to quit it or be failed in it.  I kind of side-stepped by taking an independent study on it on a graduate level.  Because when I was a student. I loved Ted for what he stood for, and what he taught- but we were just like oil and water, with regard to the drums, to be melodic. So once he found out that I played trumpet, I had to play trumpet in the class!

So, my experience as a student cast the metal for what I teach now. Drummers have to learn tunes. The other thing I teach is break your dependence on the Real Book.  First of all, 60% of the Real Book is wrong. The other thing is  if you only learn repertoire out of the book? Then you won't learn application.  You won't learn the syntax and the language.You will learn the syntax and the language by listening to the recording. And you can learn the melody, but, to hear how the melody was..... most creatively improvised on, you have to listen to the records .

GC: There are a lot of great tunes that aren’t in the books.

RP: Sometimes the best tunes aren't in the books! The Book covers kind of the basic language. Rudimentary tune knowledge – right? And so I created this class for Jazz Drum Set Repertoire a while ago .They have 15 weeks to learn about 50 tunes. I am still getting pushed back over the number of tunes that I require students to learn.  Out of the 50, 20 to 30 of them they should already know if they are considering themselves in any way shape or form  serious about jazz. So half the class is….what’s the word? Not rudimentary... but remedial in nature. But the other half of the class is with recordings and the Real Book.  I usually disseminate five tunes a week. 5 tunes a week is not a lot.That's one tune a day with two days off!

The practical application of learning tunes quickly is like so: if I get a call today- it's Thursday- for recording on Saturday...  the best a band leader can do is next day mail us the music. Or I suppose with email you could get the music by tonight. Right? Fine. We can see and hear the music tonight.  Right? But the best we have is 24 hours to learn the music. And you need to be ready to record on Saturday!

GC: Right.

RP: And so learning 50 tunes in 15 weeks is just the tip of the iceberg.  You know it's funny, George … I always mention you at the beginning of every semester, as a high example of this skill set. This is a skill set; the ability to learn people’s music and internalize it.  You know if I called you for a gig you’d be playing some of my music from memory……..

GC: Yeah, yeah, yeah.    

RP: Still, that’s one of the thing I love most about you.  It's your commitment to internalize music – which is why you play so well.

GC: But it takes work.

RP: Yeah! You have to want it!

GC:  Let me ask about that. Do you think that, in general these days, the work ethic amongst students is lower?

RP: Yes. And I believe it is so…. because as a culture, we have come to a place where the number of students is more important than the quality of students. Colleges, institutions of higher learning, are now fund raising machines; they’re not instruments of education. And considering we are sitting here in the shadow of the Acropolis, what with Socrates, and all, it's kind of ironic. The Greeks, they were about enlightenment. It wasn’t about funding, it was about the information.

And that pendulum swings back and forth.  Just like the pendulum we were discussing earlier: the need for the credentials. You know, when I started at college, you didn’t really need a lot of credentials to be a college professor.  By the time I finished college, you couldn’t imagine having more than an adjunct position without a master’s degree. And then, by the ‘90’s, it loosened up again.

 Well, now that having money is what drives the schools in a sense... and it's not about having money to pay teachers, mind you – it's having money in the building,  or having money to give away scholarships to people who don’t necessarily deserve them.  It's having money to send students on trips, rather than keep their ass in class, you know? Colleges are notorious for sending students on concert tours.  They say to the students, "Do this this concert  and represent your college. Travel here, represent your college.  And, oh by the way, you are on academic probation – for all the classes you missed!"  It's like a shell game.

The other thing that contributes to the state of me answering yes to that question, is that these conservatory minded music departments departments don't even know what jazz means anymore. When you have institutions trying to position themselves to take credit for the success of anybody who ever ate lunch in their cafeteria, regardless of whether or not they complete the program, then that's a problem. Plus, a mentality on the part of students that, because they came from the McDonald's All American State Band or the All County Band, or what have you, then they should go to music school. And that's in the few communities left in America where music programs are supported at the secondary level.  Which is a whole other issue, the lack of music in the schools, and how to fix that problem.  You don’t even start in high school, but we need to start in grade school, in terms of fixing this problem. Things are so different now, because when I was at school , and when you were in school, people didn’t come to school with guns….

GC: No, no.

RP: No. I don’t think it’s a straight line, but there’s a line from the absence of music programs to the increasing violence in schools. There is an absolute co-relative line: Music teaches people who they are.  It teaches you about yourself. You learn your own limitations. You learn about your ego. You learn about having courage. So, these principles are not being taught in computer stations. And for many kids, both parents are working.  You know, parents working two jobs to send the kid to the best school, but sadly, the parents aren’t around to teach them anything....

 And so, it's an interesting dilemma. I think the first step in solving the problem is admitting the exact nature of it. ( I am slipping into familiar language, based on my life’s experience.) But once you find principles that are universally true, it's one size fits all. So if you're throwing money at the symptom, by installing metal detectors, and increased security, and more video cameras, that's throwing money at the symptom – right?

GC: Right.  That’s not a solution.

RP: That’s like moving a drug addict to the suburbs from the inter city to the suburbs. It's sending him to some country club for some 28 days. It doesn’t work.

GC:  How important is it to have musical heroes?

RP: I think if you don’t know how to play like somebody else first, you can never arrive at what somebody can identify as your own style. That’s another problem with what’s going on right now. All these institutions are pushing kids to have their own style.

GC: Before they are ready.

RP: I’m telling you…. they ain’t got no fucking style.  I don’t have no fucking style.  My style is copying the style of the people I love and the way I combine it and that’s nothing more.

GC: But it has come out as your own identifiable style?

RP: Yeah, the way I combine these musical things is not going to be the way you combine them, even if we study the same guy’s playing. Because it’s art and art is subjective. Subjective means two people standing in front of art and coming away with different things from the experience that’s the nature of art.

One of the phenomenons of the music industry is that art is not necessarily promoting formula.  The formula is copied and redone until it becomes so common that it doesn’t attract any attention anymore! They have to find a way to rework it, right?  I mean anybody that’s old enough to know Madonna, they don't think Lady Gaga is anything new.

 But, it’s a hell of a thing getting old, right? You find  yourselves thinking things and saying things that you remember your parents or  your teachers saying to you and you think, “I’ll never think that way!!”  Well, here we are!  Amazing how different things become. And in that way, life is like a doorknob: everybody gets a turn!

GC: Especially when you have kids.

RP: Man!! And when that happens in your life, as an artist and a musician…it changes what you think to be important. My daughter just graduated from college.  She’ll be 22 in June.  You know….  whether you're in a cohesive type of family or whether you’re in kind of some adaptation of that, it's still family. And so, being a parent is some shit that nobody can prepare you for, and nobody can tell you about.

I'm watching Facebook. Some of the shit people write makes me laugh! Because, you know, they write some shit, and they don’t have kids, and they are talking about parenthood…. or they are talking about what’s wrong with kids.  I say to them: have some.  Yeah, have one.  And then come talk to me.

GC: But there are good things about Facebook, no?

RP: I use it to keep in contact with people that are important to me.  But that’s on the positive side.  It's really a platform that lives up to the old saying my grandmother used to tell me,“ it's one thing to go through life being quiet and having people think you’re an idiot, it's another thing all together to open your mouth and remove all doubt."

 But regarding having kids, I think that having a family redefines our purpose. It redefines the purpose of your life, and when that happens, the purpose of your heart transforms.

GC: What's going on with you lately in terms of your music?

RP: There are times when I feel my musical repertoire leaning towards things like the music that created the “Unity Project”. Then there are times when I think about the Subliminal Seduction recording, where I want to play and write my own music. And then there is this whole venture that I am off into now: being a record label owner. And I really want to make that mean something.  I don’t want to be a guy who only puts out his own records.  Because a lot of people who do that already.  I really want to try to create a platform for other people who go through the process, and are deserving of the platform.  Not because of the way they look or some other superficial aspect of what they present, but just because the cat can play!  He or she does not have to be handsome or beautiful.  They don’t have to play classical.  You know what I’m saying?  They don’t have to sing popular songs…… just you know, be great with your instrument. If we get back to the quality of the music being enough.... and the technology is the thing that’s going to empower us musicians to take over that.That’s why I really believe in what you’re doing here, with your blog, and interviewing the cats. It’s part of taking it back for the musicians.

 Jazz writers used to know a little bit more about the music than they know now, besides recordings.  They actually used to spend sometime trying to play ... Amiri Baraka, Stanley Crouch... these cats played instruments. But we as musicians... we ought to be defining for ourselves what’s great. We shouldn’t be beholden to people who don’t do what we do for validation, to make us a employable commodity, or entity in the industry. We have the power now through the technology to redefine that.

So, I’ve written some liner notes for some CDs.  I intend to do more. I think cats should write other cats liner notes! Bassist Dwayne Burno wrote the liner notes for Jeremy Pelt's latest record.  This is the thing that need to happen more. Because in doing so, we can reclaim what’s good, and it doesn’t become this subjective, myopic view point of somebody that can’t see past the certain period of music.

http://www.ralphpetersonmusic.com/live/

The Jim Beard Interview

Joe Zawinul said, "Jim Beard is my favorite keyboard player...besides myself." I think that's a pretty high compliment, don't you? Jim Beard has been on the scene since the 1980's, with a resume that reads like a sideman's dream: Wayne Shorter, Michael Brecker, John McLaughlin, Steely Dan, and a host of other upper eschalon artists. Beard is a virtuoso pianist and composer, yet he also is widely in demand as a multi-keyboardist. His perfection and taste with sonic textures is legendary. 

Last November, I was in New York, and I contacted Beard for a lesson. My goal was to get advice on keyboards and sound design. We met at his music studio in midtown. We got to talking, and I decided that I should interview him for jazztruth. He had a lot to say and I learned a great deal from his stories and thoughts. Here's where I started recording:

GC:
So you were saying, your original set up was the two Yamaha DX-7s and the drum machine?

Yamaha DX-7

JB: Yeah, I had a DX-7 and a TX-7 and and an RX 15, the Yamaha drum machine, and an Ensoniq Mirage, and my 4 track Fostex Cassette Recorder-that was the setup when I wrote most of those tunes for the Michael Brecker albums. And like I said, my interesting sampling came from that Prince CD, the one with "Kiss" on it. And also I was talking about when demoing songs, the need to sort of clearly arrange things, that and my desire to create interesting synth sounds. By the same token, if I would stumble across an interesting sound….but also lifting a weird pad from a Prince CD or something. Sometimes a cool sound would give me an idea for a song. So it would kind of go both ways. Right from the beginning, the nature, or the quality of a sound could either lure me into music, feed my desire to get involved with it, or turn me off, if it's an offensive, horrible sound. Pretty early on, I was pretty sensitive to what I viewed was a good sound or a bad sound.

GC: Even as a kid, when you were first getting into music?

JB: Well, no….

GC: How did you get into being a musician?

JB: Oh Jeez…..that started….I can remember being 4 years old. My Dad was kind of a technological nerd, he built our television from a kit, he built our stereo from a kit. We had a weird stereo, one of the speakers was in a cabinet  on the living room floor and the other was on the ceiling on the other side of the room. But when I was young, my idea of a good time was just to lay on the floor in front of the speaker and listen to records. Anything from…..a lot of it was the Herb Albert records…

GC: Really? Interesting….

JB: I mean, those records had a lot of detail in the arrangements…"Whipped Cream and Other Delights". That's a classic record. And I always loved holiday times, the traditional Christmas music, with the choirs and the orchestra and so forth. I used to love that.

GC: You grew up in Philly?

JB: Yes, Ridley Park, not far from the airport.

GC: Did you have classical lessons?

JB: Yes. I had the same teacher for about 12 years. I started when I was 6. I did the whole heavy classical routine. My teacher entered me in competitions.

GC: Did you get a degree in music?

JB: Yes I went to Indiana University. After that, I world on a cruise ship for a year , with the intention of saving money to move to New York. But I didn't save any money! And I moved to New York anyway..

GC: And then right away you got the call to play with the Mahavishnu Orchestra?

John McLaughlin of Mahavishnu Orchestra

JB: Not right away. I moved in August of 1985. Within that year I was working with Mahavishnu. Yeah, that was an interesting time.

GC: You came to New York in '85. You still live here part time, and part time in Helsinki?

JB: My wife is Finnish, so we split the time between Helsinki and New York.

GC: How do you think New York as a city has changed? Since you've been here?

JB: I think it's a safer city now, which I believe qualifies as being better…..In terms of music, it's hard to say, you might have to compare with younger musicians who come here who are hungry. I used to do jam sessions all the time, with the loft scene….New York has gotten so expensive now, that it seems there isn't as vibrant a scene as there used to be.

GC: I guess it depends on who you talk to.

JB: The rents…..I don't know how a kid out of school with no money saved up, without a job, could move here. I guess they don't move to Manhattan, they live in Queens, or Brooklyn.

Donald Fagen and Walter Becker of Steely Dan

GC: You're pretty well established as a musician, so I imagine you are touring a lot. You are still touring with Steely Dan?

JB: I've been doing that for two years. But we are on a break right now, so there's a tour with a band called the Dukes of September. It's Donald Fagen, Michael McDonald, and Boz Scaggs. So the three of them in one band. It's really fun. I'm playing mostly Hammond B-3 on that.


GC: Have you done a lot of B-3 playing?

JB: Yeah, I've done some gigs here or there that were exclusively Hammond B-3. But most of the time, like with something like Madeline Peyroux, I would have a set up with A Steinway piano, a Wurlitzer, and a Hammond B-3. That really served that music well.

GC: How do you adjust your set up, or your mindset, for this wide variety of gigs you have been doing?

JB: If its a more electric oriented gig, with more emphasis on synthesizers, then that's obviously much different than doing an acoustic gig, of course. After a few years, I had a working set up that I used for a good stretch; two controllers,  the Yamaha 88 weighted key controller (the KX88) and then the KX76 on top. And then I had different versions of these midi control boxes, that you could assign different splits and routings and so forth. And then midi cables running to a big rack of synth modules.

GC: And you would always bring that?

JB: I would always bring that for the Mahavishnu stuff, and then I got called for John Scofield, and he had a pretty electric setup as well. I was only with that band for a year. Wait, I did Wayne Shorter after Mahavishnu…there were several different bands, one was with Kenwood Denard on drums and Alphonso Johnson on bass…one with Omar Hakim on drums and Victor Bailey on bass…there were maybe 7 or 8 different configurations with Wayne. Then I did Scofield, and then I did Wayne again, and then I did John McLaughlin and the Heart of Things. But I found that this approach with two keyboards, with all of these bands, that these songs had a strong emphasis on arrangements. These songs were recorded with a lot of overdubs and different sonic layers, and so….My job was to recreate the sounds on these recordings. I saw this as a fun challenge.

I saw this task as making me the orchestrator. It takes thought in terms of the ergonomics of it. Let's say, this section needs some pads in this part of the keyboard that are warm and rich, and then if stuff gets wild, I'll have something splashy in the top part of the keyboard, and then maybe I'll have a solo sound in the other keyboard. Some keyboardists now just have sort of one keyboard and then their laptop. That would drive me nuts! Because this is like having, let's say 10 people, who can play all the instruments, but they can only play one instrument at any one time, so they have to switch up constantly….no, you want to have everything ready to go all the time! If there is a spontaneous need to play a certain sound, you don't want to have to press some command on your laptop, you want it to be within reach.

Wayne Shorter

When I was doing Wayne Shorter's band, with David Gilmore on guitar, this was 1996, that's when the Roland JP 8000 came out. That was the beginning of the whole virtual sound modeling thing started. It was cool to play the instrument, because you could adjust the sound in real time with the knobs…it had a lot of cool Joe Zawinul types of sounds, almost like weird creatures speaking from another planet or something. So then I added a third keyboard. Well, actually four keyboards, because with Wayne and John, there was a grand piano as well. A piano to my left, two keyboards next to that, and the the JP 8000 on my right.

John McLaughlin and The Heart of Things was a fun band. I had to do a lot of homework! But it got to the point with that band, where it reminded me of a Band of Swashbucklers…

GC: A lot of virtuosity…

JB: Which is not naturally my thing. That's not necessarily what I look for in music. It's ok in measured doses…

GC: What do you look for?

JB: Music! Musicalness!

GC: (laughs). I hear you ! But for any musical situation, you always rise to the occasion, right?

JB: Exactly. The craftsmanship of making the music at hand. That's the priority. Serving the music. Now, if the music is about getting out there and beating your chest, and trying to impress people, then sure, I'll rise to that. If the music is about repeating a little rhythmic part that has to be in the pocket, and that's all you have to do night after night, then I'll do that. Whatever serves the music best.

I just find that there doesn't seem to be an overabundance of musicians that have that as their priority. A lot of musicians have their own agenda. It's like, "This is what I do regardless of who I'm playing with."

GC: But don't you think that every musician goes into a situation having to make judgement calls?

JB: For example, with Steely Dan, I'm such a fan of their music. Those records helped me create my musical concept and my harmonic vocabulary as a teenager. When they gave me the charts, about 55, 60 charts, I felt like I already knew must of their music. And so much of their music is so tangible and strong. So most of the gig is just about making the sound of the recording come to life. But there are times in the show where they will give me extended unaccompanied piano solos, where they want me to be me. So then I can get into some stuff, like Classical meets Fats Waller spun out of a riff from "Babylon Sisters", and then you gotta turn on a dime and play the part from the song, you know, just nail it.

That's why I like doing film scores. Those are really fun. With film scores, you don't see the music until the last minute. In a way, it's almost like the musical equivalent of acting; they describe the scene, maybe they want the piano with a single note melody. Sometimes that can be more challenging that having to play a page full of Rachmaninoff. It's so specific: the director and the composer have such a specific idea about dynamics, or exactly where things are supposed to be.

I don't do a ton of film scores, they come in waves. This year is pretty good. But you know, a lot of big studios are closing down. Clinton Studios is gone, Legacy closed down, they've been gone for about a year. Those were two of the rooms where you could do large ensembles. Now they use the Manhattan Center, which is an event room, setting up the mics, etc….


GC: What about Avatar?

JB: Maybe not for an orchestra, but that's one of the last great rooms in New York. Yeah, it's depressing, all the studios closing.

GC: What is your most recent solo project?

JB: It's called Revolutions on the Sunnyside label. It's with an orchestra. It came out good.


GC: How long did it take?

JB: It was done in two chunks. In 2005 I was a guest with the Metropole Orchestra, I was invited to record and work with them for 5 days. I think it was 6 tunes. The only purpose of it was a radio broadcast in Europe. It was fun, I got some mixes, and it really turned out very well. So I thought, gee, wouldn't it be great to make an album with this orchestra. So I put the bug in Vince Mendoza's ear, and he submitted it to the management of the orchestra. And then I got Joachim Becker from ESC Records to get involved. So we did that, but we needed more songs, and I wanted to redo some of the first batch, so then we did some more recording in 2007.


GC: My favorite recording of yours is Advocate. I love the first tune, "Fever" so much! Where did you come up with the inspiration for that recording?

JB: That particular song….actually, I had written much of that song quite a bit earlier, it had just been sitting around , and I didn't have much of a production concept for it. There was this project, I don't know if they are still doing it now, but a band with drummer Zach Danziger and bassist Tim LeFavre called Boomish. I had heard their first recording, and I thought it was some really brilliant stuff. I thought they were possibly on the edge of something really unique. So I invited Zach to be involved with the drum approach on that tune. That was a time when I was still into programming and trying things….what I had not written at that point was the solo changes, which just sort of keep escalating throughout the song. That just sort of spilled out.

 It was fun making that record. There was a lot going on in my personal life at the time. I had two very young children at the time, they were one and three. A lot of that was really freaking me out! Fatherhood felt really new to me, and a lot of that feeling went into that recording.

GC: Did you spend a lot of time mixing that recording? Because the mix sounds really great to me…

JB: Glad to hear that. I get pretty fussy about that. Mixing is something that I'm actually kind of obsessive about. That was 1999, that was the beginning of the decline of the music industry, maybe now we're at the bottom. But then it was a small budget. I did a lot of the recording myself. I used to have my own project studio. I had a loft right across the street from here, and I ended up recording a lot of the stuff there. The tune on the record called "Mirrors", Zach's drums were recorded there. I just wanted to see what real drums would sound like on this tune. So I put a C414 mic up above the kit and a SM 57 in front of the kick drum. We did one or two takes and I thought it sounded great. It had that sort of lo-fi thing to it. That was the beginning of when it became cool to be cheap and dumb, so to speak! And that made it on the record.


GC: Do you think that now that the budgets are dropping, the sound quality is dropping? Or because of the technology, things are sounding better for less?


JB: Both. I heard a recording the other day, I won't say whose, and it sounded harsh, and brittle, and kind of cheap! I think the problem is that now a lot of people think that they can be the artist and the producer and the arranger and the engineer. I think people still love music from the 60's because you didn't have that at all: you had the artist, the composer, the arranger, the lyricist. It was a group effort. You get a lot of cool things when you have a collaborative effort.


GC: You're touring with Steely Dan now, what is your set up with them?

JB: Acoustic Piano-we travel with a Steinway. A Hammond XK-3C, which is one manual of a digital Hammond, and the Nord Stage. That's it. The Nord Stage is great. Great clavinet and Rhodes sounds.


GC: Are you planing on doing more things as a leader at some point?

JB: Yes, though I'm finding that much of what I've done as a leader doesn't pay what some of these other things pay! When you have kids, you have to set your priorities. I was invited to a festival in Mexico with my own group a few years ago,  and they asked me to confirm almost a year in advance. And then Steely Dan announced their world tour. And I signed a contract. And then the management said that the tour was going to be extended, which conflicted with my gig in Mexico. I really didn't want to cancel my own gig, but Steely Dan made it clear that they don't want to sub out the rhythm section. So the people in Mexico were pretty upset; they started talking about lawyers and such. I thought I would be on their blacklist  forever. But then they asked me to come down with my band the next year! I couldn't believe they asked me again! But I had to turn it down, because Steely Dan was planning a tour of Australia around the same time. And then the Steely Dan tour fell through! So I could have done the Mexico festival. It's Murphy's Law, I suppose.

GC: You are a prolific composer. Did you ever study composition?

JB: I studied a little bit. Indiana University.But I studied with a guy who was really into this 12 tone Schoenberg stuff. Honestly, I didn't learn a lot from him. Most of my inspiration comes from listening and playing a of of music. If you play Ravel's "Tombeau De Couperin", it's just perfect music, complete. Any great music! Bach still knocks my socks off. Solo piano stuff, Chopin can really be amazing. But also, Tom Waits' Bone Machine does that to me as well.

GC: I hear a lot of different influences in your music, but I hesitate to call it "eclectic" because that can be a negative connotation from certain folks.  But I feel like your albums hang together cohesively.

JB: Sometimes I feel like my albums are more like musical "little cities." Sometimes when I'm writing a song, the song will take on the characteristics of a person. And then once I feel like it's a good song, there's a point where the song takes over. I'm not writing it anymore. If I get at least 16 bars….I mean, I reject 9 out of 10 things that I write. But once I accept it, it starts to become a character. Then I say, "How does this character walk, how does he talk, is he sad, is he happy?" He's like a person in a town. And then you want to have other people in the town. But how boring would the town be if everyone it it was the same! Of course, there is a line that can be crossed; if you have a song that's a Country-Western duet fooled by something that sounds like Wagnerian Opera, followed by a Led Zeppelin type song. That's sort of over the top…..

GC: I get the idea. Although……(Laughing) that gives me an idea……Anyway, you taught at Queens College for a while?

JB: I taught there for a year, and I was also teaching at Rutgers the same year. It was ok, my kids were 7 and 9 years old, and I thought about maybe shifting my career towards teaching, so that I could be around the kids more. And then there was an advertisement in a trade paper about a job at Berklee College of Music for a Dean of Composition. So I submitted my stuff, and I made the short list. So I sent some more material. So then I made the finals, the top 3. So I flew to Boston. I swear to God, I've never been more stressed and nervous! I felt like I was being vetted for Supreme Court Justice or something. At the end of each day, there would be a big panel of other Deans, looking at you…..and I guess I felt like "wow, this just isn't me"! What ended up happening is that....they didn't pick anybody! The academic world can be strange…..


GC: I agree!

People who do well in the academic world have to have the mind of a politician. And everybody's looking over their shoulder, afraid they are going to get the axe. And, at the time, I just didn't want to play the game.

GC: Do you see yourself teaching in the future?

JB: If somebody came to me with a job and I didn't have to go though a maze to get the job, and they were very straightforward about it, I might consider it. Depending on where and so forth.

GC: Do you enjoy teaching?

JB: If it's good, I enjoy it. If I have a good student who is feeding the energy back and forth , then yes, of course. But sometimes I get students who I just know in my heart that it's not going to happen for them, and that can be tough. I had an improv class at Rutgers, and I tried to give students a sense of reality. I had a bass student in the class who had problems keeping the form for any tune. Yet this person expressed to me that he wanted to work on advanced soloing techniques. I said, 'Really?". But I had to get real. I said, "If you want to work as a bassist, people are going to hire you to play THE BASS. You've got to be able to keep the form through a tune. That's what you need to do first to get hired."

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